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CNN Freaked Out, Doxed, Blackmailed, Bullied, And Bragged About It

After insulting everyone who didn't support or vote for Hillary Clinton with that racist "Whitelash" name-calling insanity, CNN doubled down on the hypocritical idiotics when they blew a million gaskets over a stupid meme, hoping to smear Trump and silence anyone else from making any more jokes at their expense. Yeah, Creepy Narcissism Network tracked down the Reddit user and are holding that person's identity in their little black book so if that person dares say anything against CNN again, CNN will publish their info. Or at least, that is what they are threatening.

Note: I wrote this before discovering Carl Ashton's video taking responsibility for the meme. I wish I had found it earlier, but that's Youtube search for you. It was buried in piles of other results with big Youtubers and those annoying "meme wars" etc.

Carl Ashton is right, CNN took things way too far. He made the gif back around election time, just for fun, and he doesn't indicate that he intended it to go crazy viral, let alone that CNN would make a witch hunt out of it.

Mr. Ashton, it was an honourable thing to come forward and set the record straight. But you have nothing whatsoever to apologize for. It is CNN who owes the apology, and not only for this debacle, as indicated many times in the following. If anyone is in need of a life lesson here, it is CNN.

So let's mangle this nauseating crap!

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💩CNN: How CNN found the Reddit user behind the Trump wrestling GIF

By Andrew Kaczynski, CNN

Updated 0155 GMT (0955 HKT) July 5, 2017

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: How CNN continues failing to do their jobs as journalists because they are so horribly insecure that they actually took time out of their day jobs to hunt down the troll responsible and teach him a lesson about bullying, or so they claim, got it all wrong, and then they expect pats on the back for it.

One of the meme mutations was shared by a Reddit user "HanA**holeSolo" 🙄

More info:

#CNNBlackmail: Fake News VS. Meme Magic (No, I disagree with that last bit, there's nothing magic about stupid memes). But the video itself is a good one.

CNN couldn't figure out whether or not Trump got the meme straight from Reddit or not. Well, Clueless Nitwit Network, has it never occurred to you that just maybe some Trump Fan posted it to Trump on Twitter, FB or some other platform? Who even gives a flying hot dart? Chain letters just get around. Of course, it is entirely possible that you are behind the whole thing, including the meme. I don't mean Mr. Ashton's original uploading of it, I mean CNN, you could've got hold of it or something like it and wove a spectacular narrative around it, which you pass off as reality.

And as it turns out, there were at least two mutations of this meme, from different sources, so CNN went after the wrong guy, apparently. Or maybe you didn't. You had the right guy all along, but there happened to be another one in the meme mess you didn't count on. And there was. He is also an innocent man, who was just having a little harmless fun.

💩CNN's 👹Andrew 😈Kaczynski: The Reddit user who initially claimed credit for President Donald Trump's tweet issued an apology Tuesday.

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: Which was either coerced or completely fabricated by you, CNN...

💩CNN's 👹Andrew 😈Kaczynski: The day before his apology, CNN identified the man behind the account and attempted to make contact with him.

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: Because you have nothing better to do with your lives and nothing to report that stokes your insanely biased narrative, so you spend time chasing after some pathetic memer on Reddit. You wouldn't be doing this to those who repost or start left-wing memes such as "punch a nazi" and you actually think intimidating some troll into kowtowing to you, or staging such a thing, is impressive. I have news for you, you and trolls stink. The difference between you is that you are held to a higher standard, and you fail hard, every time. Getting all out of shape over a silly gif. Really, CNN, get a life.

💩CNN's 👹Andrew 😈Kaczynski: (CNN) — The Reddit user who initially claimed credit for President Donald Trump's tweet that showed Trump tackling CNN issued an apology Tuesday for the video and other offensive content he posted -- one day after CNN identified the man behind the account and attempted to make contact with him.

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: You already established that. You're still wrong. Even if you got "the right guy" you'd still be wrong. Still no kudos from me.

💩CNN's 👹Andrew 😈Kaczynski: Reddit user "HanA**holeSolo" first shared the GIF last Wednesday of Trump pummeling a wrestler with CNN's logo imposed on his face.

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: That right there should've been a huge clue to you that this thing should've been beneath your notice, unless you are in the business of mangling memes/chain letters, including those coming from the left.. You are not. I am. It's my hobby, not your job. I have my reasons, but you have no excuse. Unlike you, I dislike trolls and memes/chain letters of any stripe.

💩CNN's 👹Andrew 😈Kaczynski: CNN could find no earlier instance of the GIF. The GIF was later edited into a video with sound and tweeted by the President on Sunday.

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: No, not quite. Trump didn't edit the gif and make a video of it, the original gif was created by Carl Ashton, and the meme was mutated into two versions, one of which somehow made its way to Trump, whose ego and childish mind simply couldn't resist, and he retweeted the video version.

💩CNN's 👹Andrew 😈Kaczynski: On Reddit, "HanA**holeSolo" took credit for inspiring the tweet.

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: That idiotic nickname should've also clued you in that this drip was nothing but a troll, something there are gazillions of on the internet. Did you really think some big corporation like yourself, taking on some juvenile moron over such a silly little image meme he didn't even create is impressive, just because that meme happened to show your logo being punched? Oh, wait, you did.

💩CNN's 👹Andrew 😈Kaczynski: Soon after, "HanA**holeSolo's" other posts on Reddit, some of which included racist and anti-Semitic imagery, quickly circulated on social media.

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: I wasn't about to take your word for that, CWhitelashNN... You snooped through his posts and tweets, just looking for excuses to accuse him of what else - racism again...Like you always do. But you are hardly ones to talk. It was your very own Van Jones who flew off the handle and called Hillary's loss of the election a "whitelash". It was nothing of the sort.

This video pulled up some posts by this dork, and he definitely is not on the level. Though whether he is actually racist or just a typical internet troll, I don't know. That doesn't matter much when looking at your off-the-charts over-reaction. This could've even been a persona made up by you. It wouldn't be the first time you pranked the public in your own interest.

This video dissects some posts, and also points out how you thought an image of a decapitated Trump was hilarious. Hypocrite much, CNN?

It would be different if any of you just sounded off about the WWE meme in your own personal blogs, but you went way beyond that. Over-reaction, or totally fake, originated by none other than you, well, I guess only you know the real scoop on that. You didn't create the gif, but you sure created drama over it.

CNN's Andrew Kaczynski is called out for hypocrisy and spreading fat/white-shaming memes

Boston Bombing The Anatomy Of A Misinformation Disaster

Journalists Share Blame With Reddit For Boston Bombing Mistakes

HBO Newsroom Embarrasses Buzzfeed Reporter All Over Again

Even Buzzfeed says he outed the wrong guy behind the WWE meme

Kaczynski plays dumb, claims meme apology was given before CNN made contact.

Andrew Kaczynski's Wikipedia page

💩CNN's 👹Andrew 😈Kaczynski: Now the user is apologizing, writing in a lengthy post on Reddit that he does not advocate violence against the press and expressing remorse there and in an interview with CNN for other posts he made that were racist and anti-Semitic.

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: Because your wish is now his command... At this point, I'm not even sure this whole thing wasn't a huge publicity stunt on your part. It wouldn't be the first time some left-wing troll infiltrated some community on the opposite side and started stupid memes designed to make the non-left look dumb, or attempt to intimidate in some way. CNN is also known for cutting pics every time someone strays from the left-wing narrative. Sometimes that's even fake, scripted when they cut off one of their own for starting to say something a tiny bit negative about Hillary, then 'BAM!' whoops, no more microphone! As if it was an accident. Yeah right.

💩CNN's 👹Andrew 😈Kaczynski: The apology came after CNN's KFile identified the man behind "HanA**holeSolo." Using identifying information that "HanA**holeSolo" posted on Reddit, KFile was able to determine key biographical details, to find the man's name using a Facebook search and ultimately corroborate details he had made available on Reddit.

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: So you want praise for supposedly swooping in and saving the day and the whole internet from this totally dangerous troll. 🙄 No. You doxed. For no good reason. And you even got that wrong. There are times when doxing makes sense, as in, when actual internet stalkers/bullies/terrorists should be exposed. But this doesn't fit the bill. The Reddit user wasn't picking on any one person, he re-shared a gif about your crappy network. I'm not defending him for his actions, I'm coming down on you for yours.

💩CNN's 👹Andrew 😈Kaczynski: On Monday, KFile attempted to contact the man by email and phone but he did not respond.

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: Gee, wonder why? But at least it shows he was still capable of doing something smart enough to ensure his survival for another day, until you rumbled again.

💩CNN's 👹Andrew 😈Kaczynski: On Tuesday, "HanA**holeSolo" posted his apology on the subreddit /The_Donald and deleted all of his other posts.

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: But you still haven't apologized for "Whitelash" and Symone Sander's cold-blooded attitude toward David Wilcox's beating.

At this point, the ridiculous grovelling apology is quoted, and I will mangle that, too.

💩CNN's 👹Andrew 😈Kaczynski: "First of all, I would like to apologize to the members of the reddit community for getting this site and this sub embroiled in a controversy that should never have happened," he wrote.

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: 🤦‍♀️ Yeah right. Trolls are all about starting crap. He's not really sorry, he's just scared stupid. Or else, this is all an elaborate troll by none other than you, CNN.

💩CNN's 👹Andrew 😈Kaczynski: "I would also like to apologize for the posts made that were racist, bigoted, and anti-semitic. I am in no way this kind of person, I love and accept people of all walks of life and have done so for my entire life. I am not the person that the media portrays me to be in real life, I was trolling and posting things to get a reaction from the subs on reddit and never meant any of the hateful things I said in those posts. I would never support any kind of violence or actions against others simply for what they believe in, their religion, or the lifestyle they choose to have. Nor would I carry out any violence against anyone based upon that or support anyone who did."

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: Somehow I doubt that actually came from the mind of somebody who thought trolling was a cool idea. If one actually is such a stellar individual as described in the above after the mewling "Sorry for the racist bigoted posts, I was only trolling" buttkiss, he never would've trolled in the first place. You're either a troll, or you're an upstanding citizen. You can't be both. But you went off the deep end over a gif on the same scale with Nyan Cat.

💩CNN's 👹Andrew 😈Kaczynski: The user further apologized for calls for violence against the press in his statement on Reddit.

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: which is absolutely retarded since making a silly gif consisting of a photocrapped image superimposed on another does not equal "calling for violence against" the press or anything else. You need actual written words for that.

💩CNN's 👹Andrew 😈Kaczynski: "The meme was created purely as satire, it was not meant to be a call to violence against CNN or any other news affiliation," he wrote.

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: Well CNN, you should've been able to figure that much out for yourselves! But then again, this is you. "Whitelash".

💩CNN's 👹Andrew 😈Kaczynski: "I had no idea anyone would take it and put sound to it and then have it put up on the President's Twitter feed. It was a prank, nothing more. What the President's feed showed was not the original post that was posted here, but loaded up somewhere else and sound added to it then sent out on Twitter. I thought it was the original post that was made and that is why I took credit for it. I have the highest respect for the journalist community and they put their lives on the line every day with the jobs that they do in reporting the news."

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: I'm not sure which is worse, CNN itself, or some troll kissing their arse, but it wouldn't surprise me a troll would actually admire the likes of them. "Whitelash" Yeah, sure, CNN puts their lives on the line daily, to toss out trash like that, and act as if David Wilcox deserves to get beat up just because his skin was the wrong color for them. It's all in there.

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Excuse me while I go puke.

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💩CNN's 👹Andrew 😈Kaczynski: The apology has since been taken down by the moderators of /The_Donald subreddit.

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: Which is the best move anybody in this sorry situation has made so far.

💩CNN's 👹Andrew 😈Kaczynski: After posting his apology, "HanA**holeSolo" called CNN's KFile and confirmed his identity. In the interview, "HanA**holeSolo" sounded nervous about his identity being revealed and asked to not be named out of fear for his personal safety and for the public embarrassment it would bring to him and his family.

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: But really, how much embarrassment would that be compared with originating or spreading any meme such as Rage Comics? If somebody's concerned about embarrassing or putting their family in some sort of trouble, they wouldn't be trolling in the first place. I know, trolls rarely if ever think about the ramifications of their actions, but if this guy really is as nervous as all that, it's because he realizes just what a big bully you are, CNN, and how you make your living tearing people's reputations to shreds when they don't agree with you. I refuse to show him any sympathy if he really is a troll, or you any admiration/respect. You disgust me!

💩CNN's 👹Andrew 😈Kaczynski: CNN is not publishing "HanA**holeSolo's" name because he is a private citizen who has issued an extensive statement of apology, showed his remorse by saying he has taken down all his offending posts, and because he said he is not going to repeat this ugly behavior on social media again.

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: How noble of you...Not! Because there is a condition in which you will wrongly publish his identifying information, coming up right shortly. Unless, of course, this is all a huge publicity stunt with the purpose of throwing your weight around, or appear to be.

💩CNN's 👹Andrew 😈Kaczynski: In addition, he said his statement could serve as an example to others not to do the same.

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: If you think your sorry little crusade is going to singlehandedly put a stop to all internet chain letters, you take megalomania to a new level. You're the last that should even be considered for that mission. And what have you done? Provoked the internet into, what else? Making more annoying memes!

💩CNN's 👹Andrew 😈Kaczynski: CNN reserves the right to publish his identity should any of that change.

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: BINGO! Didn't I just mention somewhere above that there was a huge string attached to your withholding this info? Here it is, folks, it is called BLACKMAIL!

So CNN, because of this one stupid meme repost, you're going to stalk this person for life and act like a totalitarian regime on the net where he's concerned. All because he reposted a gif that punches out your stupid little logo with a Trump photocrap. You'd be rolling in the aisles with laughter if the faces were reversed and the meme had you KO-ing Trump. Admit it!

💩CNN's 👹Andrew 😈Kaczynski: After Trump tweeted the video on Sunday, "HanA**holeSolo" took to Reddit to say he was "honored," writing "Holy s—!! I wake up and have my morning coffee and who retweets my s—post but the MAGA EMPORER himself!!! I am honored!!" MAGA is an acronym for the President's campaign slogan: Make America great again."

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: Everybody knows what MAGA means by now, and frankly, I'm so tired of it! I'm sick of Pepe the Frog, sick of "Drain the swamp" and utterly sick and disgusted with "Yes we can" and "Hope and change" too! Oh, and "meme war". Memes, all of them. Argh!

But I don't care about the Reddit memer's affection for that MAGA slogan or Trump...

💩CNN's 👹Andrew 😈Kaczynski: In the phone interview on Tuesday, "HanA**holeSolo" said the White House did not ask his permission to use the GIF, and said he probably would have said no if they had.

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: Well duh, since when do people who spread memes care about permission? Since when do they even give it a thought? CNN, you are full of it! Memes started by left-wing trolls and replicated by those on the center/right, especially prominent political figures, are a troll's ultimate dream come true. This is all so saturated with sickly sweet CNN-arse-kiss&worship that it actually makes Twilight look like a good read in comparison.

💩CNN's 👹Andrew 😈Kaczynski: "I didn't realize that post would be picked up the way it was, he said.

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: So freaking what? Look, it's already been established, trolls don't think. You're totally proud as punch for stalking Trump's twitter and anybody else who might do something to offend Your Majesties o perfect ones CNN!

*Spits*

💩CNN's 👹Andrew 😈Kaczynski: "I should have never even said anything."

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: He didn't say anything, you imbecile! He reposted a gif! Furthermore, I am not impressed by any grovelling before you, not even if it comes from a troll.

💩CNN's 👹Andrew 😈Kaczynski: Trump has not issued an apology for the tweet, which he sent Sunday morning.

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: Oh, for the love! You actually expect Trump to issue you an apology for something he didn't even have a part in creating except for being in the image? CNN, you are insanely entitled! You never apologized to the civilized world for "Whitelash", so shut the ruddy hex up!

💩CNN's 👹Andrew 😈Kaczynski: Homeland Security Adviser Tom Bossert said on ABC's This Week that "no one would perceive" the tweet as a threat.

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: No one with a brain, that is, he must be floored by your combo of stupidity, desperation to smear Trump and have the public believe you, and your assumption that anyone else could be that stupid.

💩CNN's 👹Andrew 😈Kaczynski: The Committee to Protect Journalists said in a statement this week that the tweet "undermines the work of the media in the U.S. and makes it more dangerous."

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: Bullcrap!

First of all, Twitter is a joke, nobody takes it seriously..

Second, CNN, you are doing a fine right job of undermining the work of the media in not only the US, but all of North America "Whitelash" The Russia conspiracy theories. Screaming "Racist!" at people who aren't actually racist.

Third, now you're trying to undermine some individual's human rights as well. Great going, CNN, way to be!

💩CNN's 👹Andrew 😈Kaczynski: CNN said in a statement that the tweet "encourages violence against reporters."

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: That's just wishful thinking on your part, CNN, a gif with different faces superimposed on them does no such thing. You need actual words for inciting anything, you incredibly special little snowflakes! It's too bad you aren't MSN, because then I could refer to you as the Mary Sue Network. That is how you are acting. If you were a character in a story, you would be a Mary Sue.

💩CNN's 👹Andrew 😈Kaczynski: On Monday, a senior administration official told CNN that the video was not pulled from Reddit. The White House still has not responded to a series of questions from CNN asking how the video ended up as a tweet from the President.

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: Look, CNN, this isn't Syria. It isn't even Russia. You are not law enforcement. You are a mere news network, or, you're supposed to be. Nobody owes you a damn thing, least of all, answers about one particular branch of the silly image meme that ended up retweeted by the US president. You've done a lot to make not just Trump, but a lot of other people, (me included), dislike you. This sure as heck isn't helping.

💩CNN's 👹Andrew 😈Kaczynski: "HanA**holeSolo" said about the President's tweet, "I think they should have used their better judgment, since the President tweets things off the cuff, it's a kneejerk reaction. I don't feel that they should have posted something like that given the controversy going on between them and the media."

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: I say about you and trolls: I think you should have used your better judgment, since you rant out "Whitelash" and originate chain letters and other trollish stupidity off the cuff, it's a kneejerk reaction. I don't feel that you should have said/posted something like that given the controversy going on between you and the rest of society.

Hypocrite! Or scared stupid. Or maybe this troll is a work of fiction altogether, created by CNN, in which case, that tweet definitely wouldn't have ended up in Trump's twitter feed by accident or coincidence. I wouldn't put it past you to take Carl Ashton's gif or a similar one that you didn't create, and make up this whole story around it. Even if it involves installing a troll in a Reddit community.

💩CNN's 👹Andrew 😈Kaczynski: When asked specifically about his other posts that consisted of racist, Islamophobic, and anti-Semitic language and imagery, he answered, "I love people of all races, creeds and origins. One of my best friends is a homosexual and one of my best friends is Jewish and one of my best friends is Muslim."

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: Translation: 'Because I'm actually so PC that I base who my friends are on a quota that works like affirmative action. I must have at least one gay, one Muslim, one Jew, or at least make a huge brag claiming my friends are all (pick any demo other than straight white male)...'

Not buying it, nor do I care.

💩CNN's 👹Andrew 😈Kaczynski: In his apology on Reddit, "HanA**holeSolo" sent a message to his fellow anonymous posters.

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: Hey, shartheads! I never said I wanted to read any more of this garbage! It's only going to be more bullcrap that's bound to be dishonest at best, hypocritical and sickly saccharine CNN-bootlicking at worst.

💩CNN's 👹Andrew 😈Kaczynski: "To people who troll on the Internet for fun, consider your words and actions conveyed in your message and who it might upset or anger," he wrote.

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: Because big brother CNN is watching, stalking your every move. Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. Scaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeey!

Get a life!

💩CNN's 👹Andrew 😈Kaczynski: "Put yourself in their shoes before you post it. If you have a problem with trolling it is an addiction just like any other addiction someone can have to something and don't be embarrassed to ask for help. Trolling is nothing more than bullying a wide audience. Don't feed your own self-worth based upon inflicting suffering upon others online just because you are behind a keyboard."

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: Oh, please! "Whitelash" Your continual Trump bash-fest, as well as bashing anyone not a Hillary supporter in the process. You, CNN, are the real bully here! So don't get all high and mighty. There is plenty of dirty tactics you've been using on the public as well as on various guests on your crappy station. You troll America right from your newsroom. And I don't believe this piffling schlock for a second. Trolls just don't suddenly get a change of heart that fast. I maintain my theories that he is either scared stupid and would say anything to placate you, or he is actually a figment of your imagination. You have enough money to pay anyone to appear as this character in a manufactured person to person interview. You've done similar trickery before, cutting mics, pretending to be reporting stories from places where you actually weren't, etc.

So take your bullcrap and shove it down your throats, and take a hike...Off the air!❗️

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I'm definitely no friend to trolls, Reddit, 4chan or any of those things. So I'm not sorry for anyone who gets in trouble for trolling and starting memes, whether they are hoax chain letters or just the friendly spam variety, including viral jokes, and to me, this whole idea of "meme wars" means more annoying friendly spam wars. That is what CNN unleashed. Their deplorable behavior provoked people into starting more memes at an absurd rate, and declaring this retaliation "the great meme war" on CNN.

There's nothing great about memes other than the quantity of them, and that is not great in a good way.

But however anyone may feel about CNN's troll and the suckish internet meme-addict subcultures, the point is this. If CNN is so insecure as to flip out so badly over a gif joke about them, rather than do the mature thing and just ignore it and actually try doing their jobs for a change, they can come down on anyone who speaks against them. Spammy joke a trollish meme, a gif joke, or just an opinion, doesn't matter. CNN has shown they are willing to hunt down and coerce anyone who opposes them into shutting up, grovelling at their stinky feet, rolling over, and dying for them.

CNN isn't even against trolls and chain letters/memes/spammy campaigns/jokes at all, as long as they like them. Did anyone hear them protesting and doxing the brainiac who came up with "punch a nazi"? Heck, they even used their false victimhood narrative over the WWE meme, to smear Trump as a racist, because they somehow deluded themselves into the belief that Trump and the troll must be buddy buddies, all because Trump retweeted the meme.

CNN would applaud any troll for creating a meme where the positions were reversed, with Trump being body-slammed by CNN instead.

Watch out for the odd colourful lingo in this video, but it provides a little history on the CNN people involved in this here. The big reveal here is that they are associated heavily with Buzzfeed, which is a huge left-wing chain letter mill AKA meme machine.

Commentaries:

Turns Out CNN Is Even More Pathetic Than We Thought - Reality Check

Oh CNN CNN When Will You Learn? You Smell Like Boo Boo

CNN Blackmail Is A Burning Dumpster Fire

CNN Creepy Narcissism Network Throws Blackmailing Tantrum Over Stupid Meme

CNN Busted In Blackmail Scandal

The Spectacular Implosion Of The CNN - It's Fun To Watch

Funny apology satire

CNN's hateful propaganda and shady history

Yes, along with their desperate attempts to paint Trump or any non-democrat as nazi/Satan, they are still pushing the Russia conspiracy theory bullcrap, for the ratings.

CNN Goes Up In Flames #CNNBlackmail

Fake News Doubles Down: #CNNBlackmail Goes Viral (Chain Letter) After Project Veritas & Trump Crap-Post

Yet another scandal, Conniving Nonsense Nitwits have doctored up a video to make it look like Poland snubbed Trump.

I'm not as full of mirth as a good deal of these Youtubers are, but I'll laugh when the whole media-scape turns around and stops believing everything CNN says. Our local news stations still pushes those stupid Russia/Trump conspiracy theories as if they were fact. I will laugh when all of this garbage is brought to a halt and I am finally satisfied.

Over - and - out!

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