(18 to 24)
Anyone else notice that stories that romanticize abuse tend to have a female audience?
WARNING: don't read if you're really sensitive to the topic of abuse. I would hate to hurt someone's feelings and cause possible triggers of haunting memories.
Sadistic love stories aren't only read by females, but WRITTEN by females. I just find that so ironic and funny in a black comedy way. No I don't find abuse funny, just the mindset of a fangirl.
Sexy Sadistic 'Romantic' Love Interest: You belong to me!
Helpless Protagonist: *cries beautifully*
Sexy Sadistic 'Romantic' Love Interest:*acts sexy* I won't let anyone else have you!
Fangirl reaction: HOT!
And the misogyny comes! :D lol Why am I not surprised?
🧝♀️Ocean Elf: I don't find it funny at all. It's very disgusting to me.
😜Slavanna 6 Xper (Under 18)
Exactly because these stories are romanticised, not sexualised.
🧝♀️Ocean Elf:No, they are sexualized whenever sex is involved, and it is, whether written into the story or whenever a drooling fangirl gets an "Ooooooh weeeee! He's so hot!" hormonal reaction. That's not romance, that's just basic animal.
😜Slavanna: Guys have no interest in reading purple prose about a guy who chains his girl to the wall because NO ONE ELSE CAN HAVE HER.
🧝♀️Ocean Elf: That doesn't mean it isn't sexualized, it just means the sexualization turns on the girls rather than the guys.
😜Slavanna: There's usually lengthy dialogue, long descriptions, and the theme is very often "changed by the power of LUV".
🧝♀️Ocean Elf: Which is actually more about feeding fangirl ego than real love.
😜Slavanna: Many women love the idea that they are the only ones to make a heartless villain abandon his evil ways
🧝♀️Ocean Elf: Nailed it!
😜Slavanna: (just like Christine did in Phantom of the Opera, where her kiss convinced the murderous Phantom to let her and her lover go,
🧝♀️Ocean Elf: Hang on, I have a bit of an issue with this particular example. The Phantom had plenty of help to go wrong, and the only reason Christine had such an impact on him was because she was the only one who ever showed him a single gram of compassion throughout his life. I haven't read the book in some time, so don't remember anything about a kiss. The dude was deeply disturbed because all of the sadistic bigoted people around him taught him that and literally nothing else. He let the couple go because he was afraid of being caught and mercilessly killed, or at least, that was my impression from the musical. The book explained how devoid his life was of any and all human compassion - even his own mother rejected him because of his looks.
Edward Cullen, Dracula, Slender Man, Jeff The Killer,, Ticci Toby Aaron Rogers, Michael Myers and Freddy Kruger have no such valid claim to sympathy. Sure, some of them were bullied by peers to more or less of a degree, but these characters just chose to be sadist because that's how they liked it, and fangirls would love to be the only girls to turn these bad boys good, and let's face it, these fangirls are attracted to bad boys for being bad in the first place.
😜Slavanna: except she did it out of desperation;
🧝♀️Ocean Elf: Everything the Phantom did was also out of desperation and a complete lack of knowledge about how to be a normal human being.
😜Slavanna: or Belle in Beauty and the Beast, I mean, the Beast could kill her pretty much any moment, ain't THAT an abusive relationship?)
🧝♀️Ocean Elf: I actually do agree with this one, I never did understand that story, and never felt sorry for the beast. IMO, he never deserved to gain her love, much less become transformed into a handsome prince at her kiss. Methinks she suffered from Stockholm Syndrome, and he was a horrible brute for taking her from her family. Being under a bad enchantment just doesn't cut it for an excuse. Not to mention what the shock of the transformation would actually do to her. He would've become unrecognizable to her, and yet she still just loves him in this new form anyway? No one can convince me she wouldn't miss the beast after years of becoming attached to him, now she has to get used to what basically amounts to another total stranger, even if his feelings haven't changed.
😜Slavanna: and that's why characters such as Loki from Avengers have such a huge fanbase.
Also, notice there's this feminity vs masculinity struggle. Well, masculine powers are usually of sadistic, animalistic nature. The woman, oddly enough, can have the upper hand in such a relationship if she plays her card right, knowing the sadistic love interest is obsessed with her she can do whatever she wants with him. This way we're back to the "changed by the power of love" motif - if the woman can change the man's moral structure, she is a woman of power, nearly a rolemodel. I don't think I've read many stories where the girl is totally helpless and doesn't, even if subliminally, change her EVUL boyfriend's ways.
🧝♀️Ocean Elf: And that sets girls up to think they can change obsessive, possessive guys in real life, which is terribly short-sighted, misguided and just plain dangerous. If they would realize that a Jeff The Killer type would sooner rip them to shreds than fall for them, there would be a lot less disgusting crap passing for fan fiction or even *cough* literature on the net.
👒madhatters4 Guru (30 to 35)
the only book I can think of is that 50 shades of grey book are there more?
🧝♀️Ocean Elf: *Scowl* Urgh! And that one started out as a horrible Twilight fanfic.
👒madhatters4: otherwise that is an interesting topic of discussion
😋Opinion Owner(30 to 35)
hmmm. interesting. books I've never read (or seen the movies)
❔Asker (18 to 24)
Twilight, the book it was based off of.
The Sheik, an American novel.
Alot of anime/manga for teen girls (Black Bird, Aku Eros, ViewFinder, Okane)
🧝♀️Ocean Elf: No kidding!
🧐AdamThomas 8 Xper (18 to 24)
It's just how women are wired.
🧝♀️Ocean Elf: No... It's how *some* certain types of women are wired.
I am not one of them...
🧐AdamThomas: Look at apes such as the gorilla or the chimpanzee - the alpha male is very posessive, he mates with the females and fights off the competition.
🧝♀️Ocean Elf: If you're going ape, you better make it very clear you are only comparing apes to obnoxious fan-brats and not the real women out there who have too much minds of our own to go for the bad guys.
🧐AdamThomas: The reason women fantasise about these men, and the reason many women enjoy rough sex or even pretend rape is to guage the man's violent ability. A more violent man is a better protector of her and their children.
🧝♀️Ocean Elf: That just doesn't work for humans. Violent people are going to be violent toward their own children as much as toward anyone else. That makes them a threat, not a protector...
🧐AdamThomas: Of course we no longer live in caves, but that old programming is still there. It's the same reason so many women fall in love with convicted serial killers.
🧝♀️Ocean Elf: There is far too much of that, but thank goodness I don't personally know of anyone like that, at least, not in my circle of friends. I have been exposed to this disgusting mindset along with various fandoms and fan fiction writers, they seem to go hand in hand. The less extreme is even more common among other women, who annoy the living heck out of me with their princess-wanna-be mindsets and how they still expect men to open the door for them, pick up the check, always initiate the question about going out for dinner or a date etc. Please, welcome to the 21st century!
Then, opposite side of the same coin, there are those who demand men ask for permission at every turn, even during sex. A sleazy column by a Courtney somebody in the NY Times, described in gross details a sexual encounter she had with a man, who was so intimidated by raving SJW subculture that he asked Courtney's permission for literally everything they did, leading up to and after the act. Oh, gag!
There was an article on another site with a title saying how women were ruining romance, but I didn't expect the tawdry NY times piece to be included in its entirety. It's something I wish I could un-read.
🐍serp777 7 Xper (18 to 24)
Stories that romanticize pedophilia also tend to have a larger female audience for some reason. Twilight is a good example: the dude in twilight is supposed to be like 100, and the girl he tries to hook up with is in high school; like, (censored). But in twilight it's OK cause the guy looks "hot"
🧝♀️Ocean Elf: Exactly, and Bella and Ed aren't the only pedo problem with the Twilight series. Jacob and Renesmee. *Grimace* Ugh!
🐍serp777: The reason why women like these kind of things is because they induce strong emotions. Women tend to like strong emotions, especially in the romantic area of their lives.
🧝♀️Ocean Elf: I know. I don't, and that makes me a real odd duck among a lot of women.
🐍serp777: This might sound like generalizations, but if it's true that doesn't matter.
🧝♀️Ocean Elf: Unfortunately, some generalizations are true to more or less of a degree. This one is largely true.
😋Opinion Owner(18 to 24)
And why does it have to be real? It's the concept I'm talking about: whether the concept of pedophilia is correct or not. We're not talking about Bella loving a werewolf in this case, but that would be an entirely different discussion.
🧝♀️Ocean Elf: Why does it have to be real? Well. There tends to be this thing in everyone that longs for some sort of reality, even when it comes to fantasy. It's that business about up never meaning down thing.
😋Opinion Owner(18 to 24)
Wow, well is it partially wrong then? I mean if it's not black and white then you need to define some sort of relative scale or give me some equation. it's like asking me to say exactly when someone becomes an adult or when someone becomes a teenager, but I can certainly say when someone is an adult and when someone is a teenager. Yes there are grey areas, but the age difference of 100-17 isn't grey
This is a problem now because its the only time I've been able to post about it.
🧝♀️Ocean Elf: This is black and white. It is always wrong to have a romantic and especially a sexual relationship with a child, in reality and in fantasy alike.
❔Asker (18 to 24)
You can't treat statutory issues in black and white.
🧝♀️Ocean Elf: Yes, you can. If the legal age is 21 in Country A, but only 18 in Country B, go with the more advanced age, and anything under the least advanced age is always not okay.
❔Asker: Is it okay for an 18 year old to sleep with a 17 year old?
🧝♀️Ocean Elf: no it isn't. It is a lot less squicky because they are so close in age, but that doesn't make it right.
❔Asker: What's the age of consent in the area?
Why is this a problem now? Twilight wasn't the first vampire love story.
🧝♀️Ocean Elf: It's not just the age thing, though. The whole notion of human and vampy love is just utterly haywire.
❔Asker: Not only that, you're applying real-world laws on fantasy situations.
🧝♀️Ocean Elf: Oh, boo-hoo-hoo-hoo *sniffle sniffle* Cry about it. Just because it's fantasy doesn't mean everything reality-based should be tossed right out the window so that what is fundamentally very wrong in real life should be condoned and even glorified as somehow right in a fantasy setting. Especially when it comes to stories that are bound to influence young impressionable people with raging hormones.
❔Asker:: Is it okay to sleep with your dog just because Bella loved a Werewolf?
🧝♀️Ocean Elf: I'm pretty sure you weren't referring to simply letting your pet lie on the bed. A no to the other meaning!
😕Calex 6 Xper (25 to 29)
Females hate rape but they have rape fantasies a lot more than men do.
Why is that?
🧝♀️Ocean Elf: Eww! Those people are masochists, creeps. Oh, and feminists.
😐kheserthorpe Master (36 to 45)
Fantasy isn't reality.
🧝♀️Ocean Elf: Tell that to the girls who tried to kill their friend and family members to please Slender Man. Anyway, those are not healthy fantasies.
😐kheserthorpe: In the fantasy they want the guy anyway, they would have said yes, but they get to be a chaste innocent girl and he wants them so badly he must have them.
🧝♀️Ocean Elf: It's sick any way you slice it. *Gag*
😏DrewCali 2 Xper (18 to 24)
Because women are dumb.
🧝♀️Ocean Elf: Wrong. Some are, but some are not. Same goes for men.
😏 DrewCali 2: Why would you like to put men like that on a pedestal then bitch about it later?
🧝♀️Ocean Elf: That's a question for fangirls and feminists, not for women like me.
😏 DrewCali 2: Why do you think an abusive man is 'powerful'?
🧝♀️Ocean Elf: That's all part of being a feminist.
😏 DrewCali 2: An abusive man is not powerful, he is the exact opposite, he is a bitch. He is soft. He is weak because his self-esteem is so low he has to find someone else who is just as weak as he is (the insecure woman) to force his will on in order to make himself feel better.
🧝♀️Ocean Elf: I agree with you except for one thing. He's head-over-heels in love with himself, and he believes everyone else should be too.
😏 DrewCali 2: But stupid women like you worship these kind of guys and fantasize about them. Make no sense.
🧝♀️Ocean Elf: Stupid fangirls, not stupid women. It makes no sense to normal, decent. well-balanced women. But such is the mindset of a pathetic fangirl.
😋Opinion Owner(18 to 24)
This is the internet, grow up. Soo damn emotional. Emotion emotions emotion emtions wahh wahh. So emotional. Learn to think with logic instead of your puny feelings like a little kid.
🧝♀️Ocean Elf: You ought to learn to write like an adult before doling out that advice. I don't even know which commenter this blather was directed toward.
Emotions are like anything else, they are a necessary part of being human. You showed a lot of emotion in your mini-diatribe. But emotions can be misused and manipulated like anything else.
❔Asker (18 to 24)
I would suggest you going back to 4th grade, maybe you can gain some manners.
🧝♀️Ocean Elf: Touche.
❔Asker (18 to 24)
9 year olds aren't the only ones to demand respect. I'm sorry that the people who raised you allowed you to step all over them. That's not how I was raised. I was raised to treat other as you treat them. Since you're an unapologetic a-hole, why would I be anything but an unapologetic a-hole to you.
🧝♀️Ocean Elf: Okay, I'm confused. Really confused. Wich Asker is saying what? We have at least two "Askers" in the same age bracket, arguing back and forth.
😑Anonymous (Over 45)
I love it when women can talk honestly about this stuff. It's so politically incorrect, but so true.
What Girls Said 3
🧝♀️Ocean Elf: Then you'd probably find my honesty boring. Oh well, to each…
🤨MadThinker 5 Xper (Under 18)
I don't know if any of you guys are on quotev, but the place is rotting with the stuff. It gets so, so worse. It's actually a little scary. You've got these standard abuse stories, which are creepy alone, and then there are things like romance stories about girls falling in love with the son of the guy kidnapping them to rape and murder. There are lots of stories with that exact premise, no lie. The son is forgiven for not calling the cops or anything, because his dad made him, and therefore becomes a great love interest. Also, I noticed that there is a definite trend in gay love stories are also super abusive. Since quotev is mostly made up of t(w)een girls, this frightens me. Dating violence, anyone?
🧝♀️Ocean Elf: Here, here! *Applauds* You hit it right on the nose! Yes, these trends are disgusting and alarming, especially considering how young the average Quotever is. I wouldn't be one bit surprised if the Slender Man girls who stabbed their friend and the one who stabbed her own mother were on Quotev or Wattpad. Quotev is full of girls who wallow in violent fantasies.
❔Asker (18 to 24)
Well, I wouldn't know. I stick to fanfiction.net and stick to series I like.
🧝♀️Ocean Elf: Fanfiction is bad enough.
😋Opinion Owner(Under 18)
It's more than that though, because most of the stories don't go into sex scenes. It's so creepy, all the stories seem like they're a law and order episode. Everybody just falls in love with scumbag characters. Of course, most of the other stories are terrible one direction fanfics, so it's not like the site has high standards anyways.
🧝♀️Ocean Elf: Even Law And Order usually ends up with the rotters behind bars.
❔Asker (18 to 24)
That's because tweens are taught the basic definition of rape. That is how dubcon (dubious consent) sex scenes are created: "Well she did say no, but she loves him and liked it in the end!"
🧝♀️Ocean Elf: *Pukes*
🧐learningthegame16 8 Xper (18 to 24)
What book did you read?
That's a fair point, Twilight and Fifty Shades of Grey come to mind, although I'm not a fan of that genre.
❔Asker (18 to 24)
It's not just books, it's a lot of shoujo manga (japanese comics targeted to girls). And yes, I do mean girls as in minors. The teens just write fanfiction.
🧝♀️Ocean Elf: And they get fanatical about it to the point of anime becoming a cult rather than a hobby.
🙃peacewar 3 Xper (18 to 24)
ya I really don't get it - not because I can't understand the sexual appeal of a powerful man, but mostly because I don't understand why women would want to popularize an ideal/image/conception of passion and sex that is so easily misinterpreted and has such harmful connotations... it is one thing to enjoy be sexually submissive in a loving relationship where you feel safe with your partner, and quite another to popularize fantasies of abuse and rape, etc. it seems like a pretty short sighted mistake to me..
🧝♀️Ocean Elf: How about just calling it what it is? Sick.