Kimberly Hall's For Your Information Blog Post

Kimberly Hall's For Your Information Blog Post

Her name is Mrs. Kimberly Hall.

She's another Christian, and I'm sure she meant well, but unfortunately, this blog entry of hers is woefully short-sighted. Nevertheless, being gender-related, naturally, it went viral.

Some of the things she said in it, made me bristle, and I'm not the only one. Rebecca Hains noticed the problem with it as well.

And the more I think about it, the more upset I get with Mrs. Hall's unthinking blog botch job. This is an entry that never should've been written.

"Blog1"" and "Blog2:" denotes subtle differences between the two entries which are nearly identical.


👩Blog1: FYI (if you’re a teenage girl)

Posted on September 3, 2013 by Given Breath

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: I am not, but even when I was, I needed no coaching on modesty.

👩Blog1: *Readers, two days ago I wrote this post for my normal audience, which is usually very small. That said, I included recent pictures of my kids at the beach, and many new readers found that to be a grave lack of discernment, considering the topic. I agree, and have replaced them with different photos than the original post. Thank you for your counsel.

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: They would be right if those pics were pics of topless boys… Boys should be held to the very same standards when it comes to covering up as girls. That you were fine with them being topless does make you look hypocritical.

So thanks for getting rid of those pics. I hope you realized something...

👩Blog2: FYI #2 (the one where everyone’s covered up)

Posted on September 4, 2013 by Given Breath

👩Blog: Dear girls,

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: *Sigh* Here we go, another "we are women and we're special because of it." thing…

👩Blog: I have some information that might interest you. Last night, as we sometimes do, our family sat around the dining-room table and looked through the summer’s social media photos.

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: I don't do that.

👩Blog: We have teenage sons, and so naturally there are quite a few pictures of you lovely ladies to wade through. Wow – you sure took a bunch of selfies in your skimpy pj’s this summer! Your bedrooms are so cute! Our eight-year-old daughter brought this to our attention, because with three older brothers who have rooms that smell like stinky cheese, she notices girly details like that.

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: I never pic myself in PJ's, and don't own a scanty piece of anything. But much as we hate people being stupid and then posting that stupidity on social networks, (Yes, including guys being indecent and otherwise obnoxious too,) it isn't up to us to control their behaviour. We mind ours instead, because that's all we can do, and that's as it should be. We should only step in when there is something much more serious going on that directly effects someone to the point where their life might be in danger or they are being traumatized. Harassment. Bullying. Hate. That sort of thing. Drunken party videos and pics of girls in tiny pajamas or pics of boys in their underwear, gauche and embarrassingly stupid as that is, don't quite meet those criteria.

Yes, I do find indecency offensive, from both genders...

👩Blog: I think the boys notice other things. For one, it appears that you are not wearing a bra.

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: If your boys are noticing that, they are in need of some serious talking-to and a few lessons in decency themselves.

👩Blog: I get it – you’re in your room, so you’re heading to bed, right? But then I can’t help but notice the red carpet pose, the extra-arched back, and the sultry pout. What’s up? None of these positions is one I naturally assume before sleep, this I know.

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: me neither. Unfortunately, the girls you describe clearly don't have their priorities straight yet, most likely not even thinking about what negative troubles those pics could get them in later, (what young person of either gender, thinks things through when being reckless?) and are copying some bimbo from the media. But it's up to their parents to try discouraging this, and it's unfortunate they either don't know it's going on or don't care, or can't do anything about it.

I never have and never will understand people who think it's cool to be suggestive, or even skanky. I will never understand guys who do likewise, or tell tall tales about how many girls they had, or both genders sniping at one another as being mean probably because they supposedly can't get any - you know... That's just gutter-minded and stupid.… But there's nothing you can do about them when they are not your own kids.

Even harder to understand is the fact those attitudes are still around, and yours is enabling that poison to continue. Your attitude and that of all others who have adopted this disgusting "Girls, don't do this, don't do that, because you'll be tempting the men and it's your fault" crap! It's unfair toward both women and men. It's discriminatory if it doesn't hold men to the same standard for degree of dress code covering up. It implies that women are asking for it when they dress scantily, which also implies that if they end up getting abused, they did something to deserve it. It's insulting to the male gender as well, because it assumes all men are no more than sex-addicted animals, slaves and hopeless weak-willed addicts to the sex drive, and that sex drive gets put into gear every time a girl so much as breathes the wrong way.

A girl with self-respect will not dress like a skank. Likewise, a self-respecting man wouldn't even be turned on and tempted by such a display.

👩Blog: So, here’s the bit that I think is important for you to realize. If you are friends with a Hall boy on Facebook or Instagram or Twitter, then you are friends with the whole Hall family.

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: for now. Wait until your children eventually reach legal age, and move out on their own. there may come a time when they don't want to have just one communal internet experience.

👩Blog: Please know that we genuinely like staying connected with you this way! We enjoy seeing things through your unique and colorful lens – you are

Blog1: insightful, and often very, very funny.

Blog2: funny, insightful, and often very, wise.

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: fine.

👩Blog: Which is what makes your latest self-portrait so extremely unfortunate.

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: I never take pics of myself unless I have to, and when I'm doing videos, even then, it's not about me, but about whatever I'm experiencing or trying to convey. It's not a "Look at sexy me!" thing.

👩Blog: That post doesn’t reflect who you are at all! We think you are lovely and interesting, and usually very smart. But, we had to cringe and wonder what you were trying to do? Who are you trying to reach? What are you trying to say?

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: Oh, my goodness. I can't count how many times I've experienced this very same cringe whenever some adults, twice my age, I might add, told or sent bawdy jokes via email or some other internet avenue. And this includes both genders again.

Do you really think your boys are or will remain innocent of that sort of thing? If they will already ogle at girls in PJS and go "Oh look, she doesn't have a bra on!" What I'm saying is, IMO, this decency training should be taught much closer to home, they need to learn that gentlemen do not gawk at provocative girls, and aren't even tempted to in the first place. Those girls need similar lessons too. But whether your boys or their girls ever grow out of the brat hormonal stage and become respectable adults remains to be seen.

👩Blog: And now – big bummer – we have to block your posts. Because, the reason we have these (sometimes awkward) family conversations around the table is that we care about our sons, just as we know your parents care about you.

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: Blocking the girls' posts doesn't do anything but lessen their buddies list count by one. if these boys want to stare at bra-less girls, they'll just go online and look for more. The best thing might be to deny them internet access until they can behave themselves. Keyword, 'might'. Because I really don't know. If you deny them internet access now, they could make up for lost time when they are grown and have flown your nest, and they might rebel by getting into porn trash. I think it would probably take something pretty traumatic to get both oggling boys and screeching feminists to realize that the opposite gender consists of actual human beings. Not just wandering eyes and beautiful/hunky bodies.

👩Blog: I know your family would not be thrilled at the thought of my teenage boys seeing you only in your towel.

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: Not just your teen-age boys, but the whole world - whoever is in these girls' contact lists. I'm pretty sure their Auntie Violet or Grandma Nan are much more likely to be traumatized and mortified than any reaction coming from your boys, and IMO, that matters a bit more. What matters even more than that, however, is the damage these girls are doing to their own reputations with these pictures. How will they feel about those pics 20 years from now?

👩Blog: Did you know that once a male sees you in a state of undress, he can’t quickly un-see it?

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: Not just males… No one can unsee what they've seen. I wouldn't be able to unsee a male in a state of undress either if he was disrespectful about it. Shocking behaviour, from both genders, is nearly impossible to forget.

So don't put this all on the girls.

👩Blog: You don’t want our boys to only think of you

Blog1: only

Blog: in this sexual way, do you?

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: I can't answer for the girls who post cruddy pictures of themselves, it would seem to me that at the time, they don't give a crap who sees them or what anybody might think, now, or in the future. Because they aren't thinking when they pull this crap.

But if you don't want your boys thinking of these girls in that sexual way, it's up to you to teach them manners and what a proper attitude and character of a gentleman is, instead of copping out and blaming the girls for these boys' wandering eyes. It's up to the girls' families to do the same for them, and isn't your responsibility when someone else's kid misbehaves.

👩Blog: Neither do we. We’re all more than that.

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: Good. Now can you back that up by making your boys own up when they ogle at girls?

👩Blog: And so, in our house, there are no second chances with pics like that, ladies. We have a zero tolerance policy. I know, so lame. But if you want to stay friendly with our sons online, you’ll have to keep your clothes on, and your posts decent.

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: I hope you're holding all the boy contacts to this same standard.

👩Blog: If you post a

Blog1: sexy

Blog2: sexual

Blog: selfie (we all know the one), or link to an inappropriate YouTube video – even once – it’s curtains.

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: again, I hope you hold all the boy contacts to this. and I still think it's better to discipline your boys for their inappropriate reactions by denying them access to the internet for the same period as any standard grounding.

👩Blog: I know that sounds so old school! But we are hoping to raise men with a strong moral compass, and men of integrity don’t linger over pictures of scantily clad high-school girls.

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: Because they aren't tempted by them… So I suggest you get with it and teach your boys better while you still may have the chance to influence them right. Once they're on their own, what they decide to be is up to them and at least you can say you tried your best, if, you in fact, did. And one has to wonder about that considering your backward idea of a bad boy's behaviour being the fault of a girl...

👩Blog: Every day I pray for the women my boys will love. I hope they will be drawn to real beauties, the kind of women who will leave them better people in the end. I also pray that my sons will be worthy of this kind of woman, that they will be patient – and act honorably – while they wait for her.

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: Which is pretty much what most parents want for their children when it comes to that kind of relationship… But whether or not any of them marry, or even fall in love is not yet determined or in yours or their hands.

👩Blog: I realize we have some work still to do in other areas…

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: It sounds like it… Better buckle down then.

👩Blog: Girls, it’s not too late! If you think you’ve made an on-line mistake (we all do – don’t fret – I’ve made some doozies – even today!),

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: I'll say. Your intent may be good to some degree, but the execution of it, frankly, stunk, turning it into a pile of regrettable double-standards.

Don't blame the girls' bad behaviour for your boys' bad behaviour.

👩Blog: RUN to your accounts and take down the closed-door bedroom selfies that makes it too easy for friends to see you in only one dimension.

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: Applicable to both genders.

👩Blog: Will you trust me? There are boys out there waiting and hoping for women of character. Some young men are fighting the daily uphill battle to keep their minds pure, and their thoughts praiseworthy – just like you – so hang in there.

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: That was about the best thing you've said so far. In that one paragraph, you put both genders on equal footing.

👩Blog: You are growing into a real beauty, inside and out.

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: Argh. Sorry, but that's just plain cheesy.

But it does partly explain why this went viral. So many women just can't resist anything that says "You are beautiful!" That trope seems to grab women universally, regardless of moral compass, age, religious persuasion etc. That combined with the basic "Be decent" message appeals to the ones with conservative values, because it reaffirms that we are not the only ones who just don't like people showing so little self-respect as to pose nude and semi-nude on social networks for all to see.

👩Blog: Act like her, speak like her, post like her.

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: Like who?

I'm not looking for a boyfriend. I have no desire to be in love and get married. And you certainly don't have to be setting that as your goal in life in order to be a decent, honourable woman.

👩Blog: I’m glad we’re friends.

Mrs. Hall

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: But you threatened to block whomever. That doesn't sound too glad of being friends to me.


Conversation on Facebook

Okay, I'll insert my answers in. Here we go.


🙎Pigtail Pals Ballcap Buddies: Good morning! I'd like for us to discuss this article, because it brings up so many good points for parents of tweens. Whether your kids are using social media or not, and whether you are talking to them about sex or not yet, this is a good read to get you thinking ahead. Mostly because it is so misguided.

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: I agree, it is very misguided, due to short-sightedness on not just her part, but anyone who just reads it and goes "Yes! She's totally nailed it all exactly right!"

🙎Pigtail Pals Ballcap Buddies: I want to frame our conversation carefully, because I don't want this to turn into us piling on the author of this post. I find myself agreeing and disagreeing with the post, and I think it came from a good place, it just didn't get to where it was going.

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: you can't see me nodding vigorously in the affirmative.

🙎Pigtail Pals Ballcap Buddies: You may agree or disagree with Mrs. Hall's sentiments, but what I'd like you to think about while reading and then discuss are:

1. Can slut-shaming be a two-way street? Can boys be on the receiving end?

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: First, how I hate that term. It implies that anyone who is offended by nudity is a "slut-shamer" which implies being some kind of bully. Or maybe I'm just not understanding the term. But it just sounds very harsh. I do not approve of people dressing sleazy or exposing themselves in public. That does not make me a "slut-shamer" I do not go up to everyone with little to nothing on top and say "Shame, shame, shame!" So lose that term.

Second, yes, boys can, and should be on the receiving end of negative feedback for the same bad behaviour…. It is no less wrong for him to be doing public indecent exposure than for her. I can't express how utterly sick I am of the double-standard that says "Men, go out and make as many conquests as you can! You big man you!" and "Girl, you must stay sweet and nice and pure like a proper lady and if he gets you it must be your fault for leading him on" hogcrap! Come on. Real men just aren't that weak, and real women don't feel like they have to go around trying to be the sexiest thing on the planet.

Third, Being/looking/acting like a slut is nothing to be proud of any more than getting drunk or high is.

🙎Pigtail Pals Ballcap Buddies: 2. Is nudity/partial nudity the same as sexualized self-objectification?

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: Not in the privacy of your own home or in a situation it can't be avoided, such as being a long-term hospital patient for example. Butpublic nudity is a lack of self-respect, and lack of respect for others around you, unless of course, you're in a society where everybody's fine with running around nude. We do not live in that kind of society, and I would turn down the chance.

🙎Pigtail Pals Ballcap Buddies: Is that the point Mrs. Hall is trying to make with the shirtless photos of her sons in a post that slut-shames girls? Or is she being simultaneously obtuse and preachy?

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: *Scowl* That's just hypocritical and sexist of her. Since then, I think she's revised the post and removed those pics. Still, that she really didn't see this double-standard from the outset confounds me. It's like the whole "Girls can hit guys, but guys must never ever hit back!" crap. Please. One turn deserves another, and not ten-fold. What I'm saying is both genders are equally at fault for bad behaviour, and guys have no excuse for oggling, girls have no excuse to dress like tramps, and other way around. Same goes for violence/abuse. Nobody ever talks about this, especially not in the mainstream media, which is saturated with feminist propaganda, but women do abuse men, too, and they need to be held accountable for it.

🙎Pigtail Pals Ballcap Buddies: Would it bother you if the Hall boys were posting shirtless pics that your daughter was exposed to?

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: You bet it would, to the same degree! But I don't have any kids. If I did, I'd be more concerned with their behaviour than that of someone else's kids.

🙎Pigtail Pals Ballcap Buddies: 3. Does one (or 80) sexy selfies ruin a girl, so that no "good man" will want her?

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: no, of course not. Only a jealous jerk would have conniptions over long past naughty pictures anyway, and there's a lot more important things to consider, like, would nasty pictures of either gender, hurt that person's chances at landing a job or important position in some company or organization? Could it sully their reputation when little children who admire them, find out?

🙎Pigtail Pals Ballcap Buddies: Did you experiment with your sexuality in ways that you are grateful are not forever captured on social media?

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: Uhm… Not…!

🙎Pigtail Pals Ballcap Buddies: 4. Is Mrs. Hall doing the right thing by openly discussing sex with her children, and their use of social media?

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: Yes, that's part of a parent's job.

🙎Pigtail Pals Ballcap Buddies: 5. How do you feel about the comment, "If you are friends with a Hall boy, you are friends with the Hall family"? Should tweens/teens be allowed some privacy online, or is it all an open book?

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: I don't feel any way about it. each person or family have their own way of managing social media the way they see fit.

But I think sites that cater to tweens should be a lot more careful and monitor their content, and then let the parents know if there is troubling content being posted by their kid.

Quotev is a good example of a site where fangirls indulge their sick fantasies of being involved with sadistic serial killer characters.

The Slender Man stabbings are thankfuly not as common as people taking half-nude pictures, but it's a far worse problem, because the odd fandom nutcases have done more than just dress scantily, they have actually tried or managed to end human lives.

🙎Pigtail Pals Ballcap Buddies: 6. If you were the parent of one of these girls Mrs. Hall is talking about, how would you feel after reading this? Is there more to your daughter than one sexy facebook towel pose?

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: I'd be mortified. But I would get over it. There's a lot worse anyone's kid can do. I'd just hope she'd never do it again, and hope she'd take those pictures down before the wrong people get hold of them.

🙎Pigtail Pals Ballcap Buddies: 7. How does the line about "once a male sees you naked he can never unsee it" grab you? Are their bigger implications at play there on how we validate male sexuality/desire but invalidate female sexuality?

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: That supposition is bull as well as a double-standard. It's not just males who can't unsee shocking behaviour - coming from both genders. I wrote in my rant for her to stop putting it all on the girls.

🙎Pigtail Pals Ballcap Buddies: 8. And finally, is Mrs. Hall onto something? Why are so many young girls and women posting sexy, duck lipped photos of themselves?

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: I really don't understand it. I don't get it, and don't want it, either.

🙎Pigtail Pals Ballcap Buddies: Are boys doing the same thing and we aren't paying attention because our culture loves to be hyper-vigilant over the sexuality of young girls?

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: I believe boys are doing the same thing. It's just not their duck lips they're showing off. Boys are obsessed with something a bit further down, and whether they just beak off about it or actually expose or come close to exposing themselves, it's every bit as disgusting IMO. Topless boy is just as indecent exposure as topless girl. Boy telling filthy joke is just as vulgar as girl telling that joke.

🙎Pigtail Pals Ballcap Buddies: Okay, would love to hear your thoughts on this!

🧝‍♀️Ocean Elf: Well, you got 'em.

Over and out.


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